Real Food Stories: How Sleep Affects Women’s Health, Weight Management, and Emotional Well-Being with Dr. Bijoy John

Did you know that nearly 60% of women report sleep disturbances during menopause, impacting their overall health and weight management? Join host Heather Carey in this enlightening episode of Real Food Stories as she welcomes Dr. Bijoy John, a seasoned sleep specialist with over 25 years of experience. Together, they explore the profound connection between sleep and women’s health, revealing how quality rest is essential not just for emotional well-being but also for making healthier food choices and managing weight effectively.

Dr. John opens up about his personal battles with insomnia, providing listeners with a relatable perspective on the struggles many face. He explains how sleep affects vital bodily functions, including mental health, weight gain, and our food beliefs. This conversation dives deep into the detrimental effects of sleep deprivation, particularly how it intertwines with anxiety and depression, and highlights the unique challenges women encounter regarding sleep during menopause.

As a culinary nutritionist, Heather understands the importance of nourishing the body through healthy lifestyle choices, and Dr. John’s insights align perfectly with this philosophy. He introduces his seven proven sleep strategies, neatly encapsulated in the acronym SLEEP NOW. These strategies emphasize the need for a consistent sleep schedule, a conducive sleeping environment, and practical techniques to reduce anxiety and promote relaxation—essential tools for any woman navigating midlife changes.

The episode wraps up with a discussion on common sleep aids, the hidden impacts of caffeine and alcohol on sleep quality, and valuable recommendations for improving sleep. Listeners will leave empowered to prioritize their sleep as a vital component of women’s health and wellness journey. Whether you’re exploring midlife nutrition, seeking to understand the hormonal changes affecting your sleep, or wanting to learn more about cooking for wellness, this episode is packed with nutritionist insights and healthy eating tips that resonate deeply with women 40+.

Join us for this engaging conversation that promises to enhance your understanding of women’s health and sleep, helping you reclaim your nights and rejuvenate your days. Tune in now to discover how you can take control of your sleep and, ultimately, your health!

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Transcript:

Speaker #0
Well, hello, everybody, and welcome back. And if you are just tuning in with me for the very first time, it’s so nice to meet you. And I’m really glad you’re here with me today. I am your host, Heather Carey, nutritionist, chef, mom, and a woman who has been around the block with food. I want to open up about real food in relation to health, weight, and our bodies so you can make peace with what you eat. Hi everyone and welcome back to the Real Food Stories podcast. Today we are talking about all things sleep and I don’t think I know a single person who does not struggle with sleep at some time in their life and so when I was talking to Dr. Bijoy John and we were having a conversation I knew I had to have him on the show because sleep as I have talked about in lots of previous episodes is critical to our good health, our weight, our moods, our overall well-being. So why is it so hard to get a good night’s sleep? And you’ve probably heard the saying, I’ll sleep when I’m dead, because let’s face it, being busy is like wearing a badge of honor. Truth is, not getting enough sleep consistently might get us there sooner. So I’m going to leave it up to Dr. John to fill us in on why we are not sleeping well, the importance of a good night’s sleep. How sleep and our weight, our food choices and moods are so linked and the specific things we must do to finally get our rest. But first, let me introduce Dr. Bijoy Jhan. Dr. Jhan is a board certified physician and practicing sleep specialist currently in private practice with over 25 years of experience in pulmonary and critical care and sleep medicine. He is the founder and medical director of Sleep Wellness Clinics of America. offering in-person and online consultation, education, modern diagnostic modalities, home testing, and comprehensive treatment for a full spectrum of sleep disorders. Dr. John is also the founder of Sleep Fix Academy, which offers online courses, podcasts, and other resources to improve sleep quality. He is also the author of this soon-to-be-released book, Nobody’s Sleeping. Seven Proven Sleep Strategies for Better Health and Happiness. So Dr. Dawn, I’m so glad we are talking today because I know the relationship between sleep and health, but that does not mean people are getting good sleep. In fact, most people are living on a few hours of sleep a night. So let’s start with you because I know you were in pulmonary and critical care before devoting your career to the specialty of sleep. And I think you were having your own struggles with insomnia. So why don’t we just hear about your story first?

Speaker #1
Thanks, Heather. It was so great to talk to you and be on your show. And thanks for what you do. Sleep is the foundation on which health and fitness is built. There’s no other way, right? So, but you can’t hustle your way into sleep. Sleep, I call it, is the contrary to the hustle culture. It’s like a smooth golf swing. You can swing hard and, you know, so. But today, the world we live in, you can all hustle, hustle your way into it. You can’t. I am a sufferer. What happened personally in my life, of course, in med school, there is no sleep, right? You go on caffeine and then life happened. But I had to find a way to get through. My major problem was test anxiety. I’m sure many viewers have the same problem when they’re preparing for something. So I had to find a way through that. Then I lost my mom. And then I was grief for so much. I couldn’t sleep for months. But I. I had to find a way. Then I started my mood from the big limelight of the ICU. Then I want to pursue my passion. I started my own practice. It was hard dealing with so many things, but I found a way. Then I see this pattern again and again. I said, I have to reach more people and I have to give them the true message, the holistic way of how to do this thing right. The society and all the information you get from the internet is pseudoscience. It is not true. You can’t. You can data mine your way into sleep. You can hustle your way into sleep. So it is an art. And I want to teach it to all your listeners and everybody. I want to give this gift because I’ve discovered the joy of sound sleep. And once you have it, you have the superpower. You can go hard at it. It is a foundation. I call it the superpower. And I want to share. And of course, you know, that diet and eating is all related to sleep. And all the health problems will go as we go along. And you can choose any topic. And if you want to start with the food, we can start right there. And it’s your choice, Heather.

Speaker #0
Yeah, I mean, I have a million questions about sleep, and I know that my audience does too. So let’s start with the first question. How does poor sleep just impact various body functions, just on a physical level, when you are just chronically not getting enough sleep? You know what, let me back up too. How much sleep do we need a night?

Speaker #1
Perfect. Great question. So I get that asked every time, right? The ideal time for adults is 7. to eight hours, right? That’s kind of like the sweet spot. Children and smaller children, babies need a lot of sleep for many reasons. The human growth hormone is secreted in deep sleep. Maximum in children and also for us to recover from muscle function, you need that human growth hormone and of course the thyroid hormone. So that is, but then there’s a subset of people who are wandering around, especially the high functioning executives. So they are like stigmatized because they don’t sleep much. But they’re called the short sleepers. So like Elon Musk, the previous presidents, Trump and Obama, they are short sleepers. That’s a gift. They function well. So the question I ask everyone is, if you slept six or seven or eight hours, how do you feel the next day morning? If you’re still tired after eight hours of sleep, you have a sleep problem or a sleep debt, right? So that’s an easy question to answer. But if you’re going like five hours of sleep. I know some of my friends that have that genetic gift. We don’t, we don’t have, I need seven hours, you know? So I dedicate my life 10 to six is my bedtime. That’s what I do. That’s eight hours. Sometimes it’d be 10 30, six 30. So I dedicate eight hours to the process of sleep, but I prepare by eight o’clock, 8 PM to get into this mode. So my preparation starts at eight and then I lay in bed at 10. So that is the, that’s the. So you asked me what happened. So just being tired, you’re in a mental fog. It’s actually one of the reasons why people don’t show up to work. In the United States in 2017, it cost $417 billion because of people not showing to work, right? So you’re in a mental fog. Then you are feeling depressed and you’re anxious. It’s a bidirectional relationship. The more tired you are, the more anxious you get, the more anxious you get. you don’t sleep. It’s called sleep anxieties. It’s a vicious cycle. We got to get out. And that can also cause depression and you’re tired. So it’s a balance, it’s a bidirectional relationship. And if you don’t sleep well, and if you have conditions like sleep apnea, after an apnea, there’s a surge of catecholamines like norepinephrine. So what happened? It stresses your heart. So your blood pressure, which is supposed to regulate, if you take your blood pressure during the day it’s high because we’re all hustling But in the morning, it should be very, very low. But with people with sleep disorders like sleep apnea, because of the release of the norepinephrine, your heart blood pressure is hiked up. So is diabetes. So anybody who has high blood pressure and uncontrolled diabetes need to have this condition ruled out called sleep apnea. So that’s in shot. You know, of course, diet is related to the hormones like leptin and ghrelin. We’ll get into it. Those are my favorite. So I have chapters dedicated for. for all of this, you know, for mental health, for weight gain. And also my mom taught me how to sleep. So I dedicated a chapter for women. Women’s sleep is absolutely nuanced. It is very complicated. Women are, you know, two thirds of all my patients who don’t sleep well are women. So unfortunately, so women have to be on their game to sleep better because it’s so many reasons. So that’s where we are, Heather. I’m ready for to digress into certain topics. It’s all your choice. Let’s go.

Speaker #0
Okay. I know there’s so much to talk about because, I mean, so I really want to focus on women and sleeping. But first, I just want to just go back to the mental part because I think there’s this, what comes first? You know, do you have anxiety and depression and then you can’t sleep? Or are you not sleeping? And that creates anxiety and depression. And I guess I’m sort of answering my own question. I mean, it… it can’t hurt to just focus on sleep and see if that helps, right? All of it. But, but I mean, does what’s, what do you think comes first? I mean, do you think that lack of sleep leads to a lot of anxiety and depression?

Speaker #1
Correct. So that I believe, you know, if you look at a hundred percent of people who are anxious, they have a sleeping problem, right? So I believe it’s, I would say it’s, I have to give it 50, 50. I can. So if we don’t sleep well, you don’t feel well, and you are not responding to things. See, my psychiatrist friend gave this beautiful definition of anxiety and depression. Anxiety is the fear. of the future, depression is worrying about the past. So anxiety is worrying about the future and depression is worrying about the past. What a beautiful, simple definition. Of course, it can be complicated, but when you’re not sleeping, you’re worrying more because you think you can’t handle it. So that’s the loop you opened up. And then when you don’t do things well, you’re short-tempered, then it creates more hurt within yourself. Then you start thinking about it in your bed. You’re not sleeping. So it’s a vicious cycle. But if you can do that and try to get off this cycle, then you are great. So that’s why I also have an acronym, SLEEP NOW. I have dedicated the N-O to no to worrying. We’ll get into it towards the end or how to do that. So I think it’s a 50-50 problem. I have a beautiful picture. It’s like a circle, sleep, anxiety, poor sleep causes anxiety. and worsens depression. And then it’s a loop. I just imagine I have a, that was my own thinking. I just put it in the, in my book.

Speaker #0
Yeah. That, that sounds right. It’s almost like a, it is like a loop, right? One just feeds off the other, I guess.

Speaker #1
Right.

Speaker #0
So let’s, let’s focus on, on women’s health because I’m at, and you know, and I know that in midlife with menopause hormones, There are so many women who just cannot get a good night’s sleep. I mean, so there’s hot flashes keeping women up. So there’s things that, you know, that are like happening. So it’s not just that they just can’t get it. They can’t explain it. But things wake you up. You have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. So your hormones, your hot flashes. Let’s talk a little bit more about that. What do you feel? How can women in going through? menopause just get a really good solid night’s sleep. Because I know for me, when I don’t get, when I get woken up in the middle of the night and then I’m up and maybe thinking, maybe a hot flash wakes me up. It’s my whole day is ruined, you know, and then you do that for days in a row that it’s just, it can be really mentally challenging.

Speaker #1
Yeah. The bad habits happen. You know, I have to rewind and go all the way back. Even as a young women. Just because of the time of your menstrual period and your pain, you know, the premenstrual syndrome, you know, all that pain. Your sleep is, you know, it can affect your sleep. So then childbearing, you know, pregnancy is horrible in the third trimester. You don’t sleep well in pregnancy. And then childbearing and responsibility. So you’re set up, you know, you’re managing your career. And then so you are a little bit hyper. Women are a little bit hyper-bit. vigilant just by nature. There are many nights my children come and they come past curfew. My wife will be like, did you know your son came at this time? I said, what happened? Did you know there was a storm? I said, I don’t know. But maybe I was recovering from a night of call. I don’t know. But many incidents. So there is this hypervigilance in women. And then every time, as a young woman, and then in middle age, raising children, and then comes… menopause you see so the estrogen is such a protector of women’s health it is i mean i’ve done even in my research in the intensive care unit in patients who respond to the lung injury from covid or whatever uh you know the women are protected because that’s what we we always found but then what you are losing that right so you know that’s why women are not uh as risk as men for sleep apnea. But once menopause hits… the risk is same in men and women. Women gain about seven pounds on the average in menopause. So these are some of those things, hot flashes because of the hormonal changes and low estrogen, what it does, you know, the ureter, you know, the conduit that, you know, moves the urine is slowed. That muscle is also estrogen dependent. It does, it loses its contractility. And so it’s not moving much. And women are at risk for urinary tract infections. And that’s one of those things you wake up to use the restroom in a mild UTI, not the raging. I’m not talking about the little bit or your sensation of your bladder being full. So that hormone just changes, changes everything. So the loss of estrogen, so seven pounds you gain in perimenopause on average. And then what women do, they’re always, you know, you want to learn about a lot of things. You’re very inquisitive and you learn, and there’s this sleepy time tea or some kind of tea. Guess what? It’s Captain. been you’re gonna it’s a diuretic so so i have i described the scenario of this perimenopausal woman who comes to me with these kind of symptoms so i had to go back and she she drinks her favorite tea around like 8 p.m and then she wakes up so i just made her drink it in the morning if you want to drink it drink it and then she had complaints of some leg pains and you’re at risk for low iron you can have some symptoms called restless leg syndrome that is a commonest disorder known to men but most people are not aware you know you have this charlie horse sensation that’s easily treatable condition it’s and the number one cause is iron deficiency so so you have that and then if you’re snoring you’re likely to have sleep apnea in the menopausal age so you know the change of hormones you you know night sweats waking you up using the restroom because of those slowing of the ureter the conduit that passes urine or a fullness of the bladder. And then, and of course you start to snore and then that you’re vulnerable for sleep apnea. So when you have an apnea, you know, the brain is like sending the surge chemical, hey, wake up. The aim of the body is to keep you alive. It’s going to trigger you that flight or fight response at night in your sleep. And then you wake up and then you look at the clock or you have your phone next by, the game is over. It’s three o’clock. oh, I only slept three hours. Oh, I got to get up. So the cognitive activity increases, there’s bad habits. And then it just, you know, most people are having, and women are also vulnerable for something called environmental sleep disorder, the snoring of their spouse. So women, the couples are having something called the sleep divorce. They’re sleeping separately. And in modern society, I’m listening to all this bad information. They’re saying it’s great to sleep separate, but it is. A couple sleeping together is absolutely magical. It blends the relation. There’s something so spiritual about that. But today they’re saying it’s okay. It erodes so many at levels. But my aim is to bring the couple’s backs together. So preventing the sleep divorce and helping to find out the nuances in women’s sleep.

Speaker #0
I’ve been hearing a lot about sleep divorce too. And I know I’m not a believer in that. I don’t think that that’s- Sustainable. It didn’t solve the problem. No, correct. of your sleeping. But what I’m hearing from you is that there’s this drop in estrogen, right? That we know about menopause. Do you recommend for women who are candidates for hormone therapy to take X estrogen? I mean, is that one, would that be a thing? And then of course, other people are thinking, well, what, what can I take? You know, what pill can I take? Is there some kind of a sleeping aid that can help me? And what are your thoughts on those?

Speaker #1
Okay, that’s a true two-pronged question. You know, like we have seen the replacement of, you know, whether it is estrogen or testosterone for men, you know, it’s complicated. You know, it’s nature is doing something and then we’re doing anti, you know, it always never works. So I would highly recommend consulting with your personal physician on the decision of estrogen. It’s in the past when I first started in the 90s. Everybody had estrogen, but in the last 10, 15 years, we are aware of the increase in cancer risk. So you have to be very careful. That’s a discussion when you’re deciding because you have to be much screened. You have to have that. But the second question, what can you take? There are two things which really help with this process is the only two things I recommend is magnesium and vitamin D. Those are the things that are helpful in creating the hormones that help you to sleep. And of course, if you stretch it, I tell people. okay to take melatonin up to three milligrams. I don’t recommend more than that. So, so magnesium, if you’re deficient in vitamins and then melatonin, those are the only three things I recommend. I don’t, you know, recommend, but then if you work with it and use the other holistic approach, you will get through it. Venipause is like a, it’s a, it’s a syndrome. It’s for some, some women last three months, six months, some to a year. But during this process, you get so many bad habits. And plus, make sure if you’re snoring, you have to rule out sleep apnea. That’s the best gift you can do for yourself in perimenopause and menopause.

Speaker #0
So what you’re saying is, I mean, rule things out first, right? Make sure that you don’t have sleep apnea or you do have sleep apnea.

Speaker #1
Or restless leg syndrome.

Speaker #0
Restless leg syndrome. Rule out the other physical outside issues.

Speaker #1
Correct.

Speaker #0
Before addressing sleep. And I mean… Right. Because we want to make sure we get those things fixed and under control.

Speaker #1
Right. So when I see somebody, I ask them whether they have primary insomnia or comorbid insomnia, meaning if they have another condition that’s coexisting, like if you have a heart problem, if you have a lung problem, if you have diabetes problem, because that’s all going to keep you up. And if you have chronic pain, so I have to rule that out. Then I look whether you have psychological Well, or conditions like anxiety or depression. So once I have to, you know, because my, my training and all the other areas helps me to, it’s just not like. You’re not sleeping because I want to make sure, you know, the easy answer is I’m not sleeping. Take a pill. No, I work with, you know, people to find out. So once I know you have clear cut insomnia, then I want everybody to do the sleep journal and the sleep assessment or sleep quiz, which is available on my website. And then you see a sleep pattern. It is eye opening to see this in print. I’ve seen so many people. And of course, the drinking. Oh, so and all this information about you know, drinking your way to sleep. So when people write it all down, when they take the caffeine, when they exercise, when they drink wine, so, so, you know, that changes, you know, alcohol, for example, metabolizes into acetaldehyde. Alcohol is an anesthetic. It puts you to sleep. That’s not sleep. It’s drowning the brain. But then later acetaldehyde builds up and that’s a chemical that wakes you up. That’s why. And then alcohol is also a diuretic. So you’re dehydrated. you have this toxic buildup of And then that is a sign of the hangover. You don’t know where you are, you know? So you have to, you know, so it changes, makes you wake up at night. So, and also I talked about this woman and I described her in my book about the taking this tea and changing things around. I mean, it’s an eye opener. So you can see your sleep pattern and then go from there.

Speaker #0
Yeah. I know a lot of women who were just a lot of people, my husband included, he’s drinking like Two big glasses of water, any liquids, you know, like right up before he goes to bed. And then he’s up a couple of times in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. And I’m saying, stop drinking. I mean, just that’s sort of like a no brainer, right? Just like don’t cut off, cut off liquids, cut off the tea. You know, it sounds like nice, a nice cup of warm tea before bed. But those are the simple things you can do, right?

Speaker #1
But the number. the number one sign of one of the cardinal signs of sleep apnea is waking up in the middle of the night. So what happens when you have an apnea, there’s this negative pressure and all the fluid flows into the heart. The heart’s like panicking and saying, you know, I’m filled. So it sends that hormone, the diuretic hormone, it’s called atrial natriuretic peptide, and then you have to pee. So all my men, and also when I have prostate problems, all my men, the first thing they are grateful. Two things they’re grateful that there’s snoring is gone and they don’t wake up to use the restroom at night. So it’s not all the fluid. It’s a medical condition. It’s either a prostate problem or sleep apnea. So you have to rule that out if you’re waking in the middle of the night.

Speaker #0
Okay, good to know. Let’s go back for a second and talk about, you mentioned the hormones leptin and ghrelin. They’re your hunger and satiety hormones. Correct. And let’s talk about how. Lack of sleep and, you know, chronic lack of sleep affects those and then leads to maybe overeating and more cravings for sugar and then in turn weight gain.

Speaker #1
Right. So like I mentioned before, sleep is the foundation where fitness and health is built on, you know, and diet is built on because we have to have. So there is this, you know, we found out leptin and ghrelin. Leptin lowers the appetite. Ghrelin increases the appetite. In chronic insomniacs, guess what? This ratio is altered. You have less of a leptin and more of ghrelin. And insomniacs, just by the fact when you’re awake, guess what? You have more time to eat. That’s why shift workers, especially night shift workers, are more chance to gain weight because they are more awake than a regular worker. So guess what? When you’re tired, what are you doing? Bad choices. You’re going and getting high glycemic foods. like potato chips, candy, or, you know, sugary drinks. So then what happens? If you take a sugary drink, even four hours prior to going to sleep, it is affecting your quality of sleep. So you’re doing bad, and then, you know, it’s going to affect your body. And then meal, even if you eat a big meal closer to bedtime, you know, the food stays in the stomach for about two hours. And to digest it, the end product of digestion is heat. heat is not good for sleeping because melatonin is only secreted in a in colder temperature within core body temperature so just by eating more a big meal so i tell people to have your favorite meal in the afternoon and less and at least at least two three hours you know if you’re going to bed at 10 try to be be done by at least by 8 p.m your dinner uh so and a light low carb low glycemic dinner. So it’s a very simple strategy. So you have to do this. Otherwise your metabolism, the hormone is completely altered.

Speaker #0
So let’s talk then about, you know, I’ve heard you say like you go to bed at 10 and get up at six, right? And it sounds like you’re pretty regimented with that. And that’s probably something that you highly recommend is just staying. to a firm sleep schedule. But what if you are a night owl? You know, you like to just, it just doesn’t feel right to go to bed at 10 o’clock at night and it just doesn’t. So two things. What if you’re a night owl and you like to stay up a little later and does going to sleep later, does that mess with your circadian rhythm? So circadian rhythms is like the biological clock. we have, right? Your hormones kind of get fired at certain times of the day and night and right all through your 24 hour cycle. So does sleep affect that? If you’re just kind of all over the map with sleeping and sometimes you’re going to bed at midnight and sometimes you’re going to bed at 10 o’clock and let’s talk about that a little bit, how your hormones and your just body functions get messed up because of not being consistent.

Speaker #1
Thank you. So there’s a genetic night owl people. That’s a totally different topic. But most of the night owls, today’s world is behaviorally induced, right? So I call them the teenagers of my practice. So during teenage years, those hormones just shift the clock. So they have this delayed sleep phase syndrome. So you are moving the clock forward because of your, you know, the hormones play a huge role and plus because of the behavior that, you know, the teenagers. tend to stay up late for many, many reasons. So you move. So, and then what happens in today’s world, this is a major thing. We’re compromising on our sleep because that’s the only thing we can do. You know, we are, we have all our best friend, guess what? Our best friend is our phone. And we are going to spend many hours on the phone and guess where that hours coming from? It is coming from sleep. So majority of us are sleep deprived, chronically sleep deprived. So Thank you. And then what happens, society works still on 95 or 85, right? You have to. So even in my own children, I preach this to younger people. So what happens in high school, you move your clock, then you go to college, it’s completely messed. Kids stay very, very late and they schedule the classes late. So you’re coming big time. And then what happened recently because of COVID, people are working from home and then people are even sleeping even later. So the clock Stock shift is this phenomenon after COVID. It’s been exaggerated by COVID. So you’re moving, and then suddenly you have to change your job. See, the kids are, you know, they stay late Friday and Saturday. Then Monday comes in, you have to go to school, right? So you can’t shift that, you know. So that’s when they struggle. Monday mornings, they struggle. So it becomes a habit. So if you are, that’s why some people take a later job. They may be born night owls, you know. So. But then most of it is behavioral induced. So to answer the question, you want to, I have some people who are so far removed, then I do something called chronotherapy. I keep moving the clock forward, forward and catch it on the back end. Or if it is something, if you’re sleeping by till one, I can move it this way. But if you’re going to bed at two, three, I just keep moving it and catch it on the back end. It is called chronotherapy. I do it, I have a few. patient side do that. So it depends on how to do it.

Speaker #0
So what if someone is just more comfortable going to sleep at midnight, but waking up at 8 a.m. and getting eight hours of sleep versus the 10 to 6? Is there something to be said about waking up with the sun, you know, like getting that morning daylight? I’ve heard that too, that that’s really important to get 10, 15 minutes of morning light and sit outside.Does that matter? Or is it as long as you’re getting your eight hours of sleep?

Speaker #1
As long as you get, if that’s your life, that’s going to be a permanent thing. That’s fine because we are going to keep the circadian. So what happened is your hormones that help you to sleep starts just about when the core body temperature drops. So you will have a new clock. That’s your clock that’s going to keep. That is absolutely fine. We are creatures of light. Just imagine a child wakes up because when the child sees the light, we are all creatures of the light. That’s why we don’t feel good when there’s no light. You know, the seasonal affective disorder. So there’s something said about that light. But if you have a night owl and if it’s comfortable, you sleep from telltale, there’s no harm done. Your clock is in a different, you know, and your circadian rhythm and the secretions of melatonin, the drop in the core body temperature. All keeps up with the new schedule. There’s nothing wrong with it. But provided it’s just like the teenager, you don’t have to change it on a Monday back. You know, that’s where the, you know, it happens. But other than that, it’s fine.

Speaker #0
Okay. All right. That’s good to know because I do know a couple of night owls who really like to go to sleep midnight and even later, but they’re making up for it on the other end. They’re probably waking. I can’t relate to that. I’m like you. I like to sleep. 10 o’clock, get up at six. I’m a morning person. Like it’s not relatable to me, but I guess if that’s okay, that’s, that’s good. So I have a couple, I want to talk about your book and your seven strategies, but I have a couple of just like rapid fire questions. So I ask all these things that you see on the internet and social media and things to do. So I’m just going to ask quick, you can do like a yes or no, or like a quick short answer. You’ve already answered about magnesium. You like magnesium, right? Correct. How much magnesium do you recommend?

Speaker #1
You know, like I always go the lowest possible. I always, you know, start low, go slow. I would say like five to 10 milligrams. You don’t want a lot of it. You know, there’s so many. I would start, if you can take the lowest possible, one, two, what is the lowest that’s available? That’s what I’ll do.

Speaker #0
Okay, and what type of magnesium? Because there are a couple of types.

Speaker #1
Yes.

Speaker #0
Magnesium citrate, right? There’s a different, there’s a couple of types.

Speaker #1
Magnesium sulfate and magnesium citrate. Citrate can cause a little bit of stomach upset. Magnesium sulfate should be okay.

Speaker #0
Okay. What about using THC or CBD to help you sleep at night? I know a lot of people now who are taking gummies at nighttime, probably with not just CBD, which doesn’t get you high, but with THC. and who are really now almost claim that they cannot fall asleep without it. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker #1
So it’s an absolute no-go. It doesn’t help. It’s just like one of those things is it changes certain portions of your brain, but certain portions of your brain are still awake. It’s almost like being in REM sleep. You’re not rested well. So what you do, you increase the dosage, and then you might get tolerance. So THC or gummies. They are not conducive for sleep for the long run. You might feel better, but usually most of the people also combine it with alcohol. So I would not recommend for going to sleep in the long run. It’s not sustainable. It’s not the good rest you need. You don’t get that N3 deep sleep. You are more into the REM or stage one or stage two sleep. It’s not the best.

Speaker #0
I imagine it’s kind of like alcohol. I mean, it can be sedating, right? Right. It probably sedates you to sleep, but then it messes up the rest of your sleep.

Speaker #1
That’s right.

Speaker #0
Okay. What about caffeine, you know, and drinking caffeine? I know for me, if I drink caffeine past three o’clock in the afternoon, I’m very sensitive to caffeine. I can only drink like one cup of tea in the morning, but sometimes every once in a while I’ll drink something like maybe mid-afternoon and that will mess up my sleep. 12 hours later. So what’s your thought on caffeine?

Speaker #1
Right. So, you know, we have this process that builds up within this called the adenosine, which is a sleep promoting chemical. So caffeine is anti-adenosine. It breaks down adenosine. That’s why it keeps you up. Caffeine is supposed to last four to six hours, but in vulnerable people, it can last up to 12 hours. So I tell people not to go past one. And especially even myself, I I could drink coffee at like 8 p.m. and go to sleep. But then when the other day we had some kind of caffeine at 6 p.m., I couldn’t sleep. So I don’t drink. Caffeine is good for you for many reasons. But as regarding sleep, I would not recommend caffeine past noon. You know, I don’t recommend it. But like it can last as long as 12 hours.

Speaker #0
Okay. All right. Great. What about sleeping in a dark room, you know, setting up your, your, your environment, you know, does that really matter? Dark room, cold, you know, all of those, those circumstances.

Speaker #1
Why don’t I just run my sleep now strategy because I include all that in that. Okay.

Speaker #0
Okay.

Speaker #1
Well, all right. So I’ve devised this seven proven sleep strategies in an acronym. It’s called sleep now. So viewers, please take a pen right now. SLEEP. n-o-w right so s is for the schedule 10 to 6 but here’s a little caveat if you struggle to go you’re going to bed at 10 and cannot sleep till midnight make sure you don’t uh go to bed at 10 go to get closer to when you fall fell asleep by 10 30 or not 10 30 11 30 and keep up six at 6 a.m most people when they the insomniacs all of them what they do they were trying to get to bed earlier thinking to cancel it so you know you’re struggling for three hours so Go to bed, but make sure you sleep at 6 a.m. And I want to create the sleep debt. Guess what? In two weeks, you will, the first week, they don’t like themselves. They don’t like me because I said so. And then once you do that, you can move from 1130 to 1115 to 11 and then move it that way. But you have to wake up at 6 a.m. No snoozing. You have to go. Next in the L is low light, low noise, low temperature because melatonin, Mela means darkness. Mela. Melatonin is only secreted in dark and in colder temperatures. So make sure your temperature is set between 65 to 70. That’s why you don’t sleep well in a tropical vacation because it’s too hot. Your melatonin is not there. So you don’t sleep well in tropical condition. Of course, noise is a deterrent. So those two things. So next is electronics. We talked a lot about it. See the light from your phone, especially in darkness where there’s no ambient light. sensor signal. through the eyes into the supracasmatic nucleus, which controls the circadian rhythm and telling it’s daytime. So use a phone in the bedroom is absolutely dangerous. I keep my phone in my bathroom. I set an alarm for six to 630. I literally wake up. And of course, in the middle of the night, you wake up the dings and it’s three o’clock. You don’t want to access. So no clocks in your bedroom. No. And your phone set an alarm. Trust me, this will work. The next is exercise. Make sure you don’t exercise at least four hours prior to going to sleep, because when you exercise, you creating endorphins. Endorphins are stimulatory. And I used to work out because in my ICU days, I had only time at eight. I used to work out and go to sleep, but now I can’t. Your body changes. Now I work out the first thing in the morning after I wake up. So you’re calming your body and you’re giving a chance to calm your mind. The next is SLEP, power of your mind. So you don’t have access to the deterrence with your phone. Then you calm your body. Now I practice, this is called vivid imagination technique. I’m the first guy to to promote for sleeping. I have been doing it for 30 years. I started thinking about, if I watch a show, I’m the director of the show that night. I think what’s going to happen the next day. We don’t want to bring reality. See, what happens when you lay in your bed, you’re starting worrying. Worrying is reality. I don’t want reality in your bed, but you want the abstract. And this works every night. I used it last night. I use it and then you ease into sleep. And then also I teach people how to do yoga, nidra. Nidra means nothingness. It’s a Sanskrit word. It’s deep meaning. You lay down and have your palms up and you act like a corpse. And also incorporate cognitive behavioral therapy. You start thinking from your head down just and focus on breathing also. Andrew Weil has taught this nice technique about breathing. So, but you’re giving you a chance. You can’t just, you know, sleep is like a, it’s a dimmer switch. It’s not like an on and off. We want it to, it won’t happen. You have to dim slowly. So that’s P. And N is no to worries. I’ve combined N and O. I tell people to worry. We are all worriers. We worry a lot. We worry. I tell people to dedicate time 6 to 8 p.m., but 8 p.m., you’re done. If you can’t solve the problem, write it down. You do it the next day. So I’m not telling not, you know, we have to worry, but you dedicate your time. You don’t bring it to a band. So and then W is win by losing. You have to win. by just letting it go and taking it easy. Don’t bring everything you’ve had. So it’s like a seven course meal. You have to have your music. You have to have your salad. You have to have your wine. You can’t have your meat or dessert right away. So it is a process and there’s no way around it. Society can do all the research and do everything and there’s no way. So SLEP, schedule, low light, low noise, low temperature. He’s for electronics, no electronics, at least 30 minutes prior to going to sleep and exercise, four hours. power of your mind, no worries, win by losing. And that works. I’ve helped hundreds and hundreds of people, including my own children. I put them on the schedule. They look at it. And also today, everybody wants to look at their sleep pattern. I get the number one reason for my counsel is, yeah, I didn’t get enough REM sleep. I didn’t get enough. So what are you going to do? They worry and it gets worse. So I tell people, get the data. Implement these strategies and look it up. You don’t want to, you can’t mine your way, data mine your way. You can’t do it. So it is, so, but society and everything, all this bad information, people are desperate, but it will take two to three to four, at least six weeks. You know, I have a sleep now course, which I have this videos, which I’m explaining bits and pieces in my, on my website. So people are desperate. There’s wrong information. There’s no good information. There’s a few good information. Matthew Walker’s information is good. So he wrote Why We Sleep. It inspired me to write this book as a sequel of Why We Sleep from a scientist’s perspective. Now I’ve seen practical how to, you know, the sleep disorders and how to treat them is my. So everybody has read that book. People are so desperate to know. There’s no good information. So everybody is an expert. Check the credentials. And it’s all bad information. So it’s like taking the stairs. It’s not easy. I’m not promising, Seth. something. So I hope everybody took note of this and it’s my message. I want to spread this to as many people as you can.

Speaker #0
Yeah. Thanks. I mean, this, yeah, it takes work. I mean, it’s, it’s, and I, I love your, I love your seven steps and, you know, especially winding it down at the end of the day, leave your worries out there, write them down in a journal. Right. And don’t bring the worry into your bed with you.

Speaker #1
Yes.

Speaker #0
Yeah.

Speaker #1
And use the imagination. Bed is the absolute. Oh,

Speaker #0
and I love that too. I’m going to…

Speaker #1
A bedroom is for sleeping and sex. Most people are worrying or snoring.

Speaker #0
Right. And not using their vivid imagination. I love that. Well, how can people get your book? Is your book out yet? Yeah,

Speaker #1
it’s ready to pre-order. I have received some authors’ copies. I can show you how it looks like. It’s really done well. So I’m proud it’s available in everywhere. It’s called Nobody’s Sleeping, Seven Proven Strategies. And people can check my website, www.sleepfixacademy.com.

Speaker #0
Fantastic. I will put all of those links in the show notes so people can access that. And I have one last question.

Speaker #1
Yes.

Speaker #0
Because I think people have asked me this or we talked about this a lot. Can you catch up on sleep? So say I’m getting… Five, six hours of sleep Monday through Friday. Can I catch up on the weekends?

Speaker #1
Perfect. Yes. So, you know, my son called me in college and said, dad, I have a sleep problem. I said to him, son, you don’t have a sleep problem. You have a sleep debt. So he came home for, you know, for his holidays in college. I unplugged him. He slept three days for like 14 hours. And then he was, then I asked him, do you have a sleep problem? No, no, not ever. So, but remember in the, when you have a insomnia, I’m creating a sleep debt. by the schedule. It’s called sleep restriction. And during that time, you should not take naps also. So you’re creating a sleep debt to have a consolidated time at night, right? And then there’s this condition called hypersomnia. Some people, no matter how much they sleep, eight, 10 hours, they’re still tired. So they might have a condition called hypersomnia. I have a few collection of my patients, and I wanted to bring that information. So to answer the question, if you know in the weekends you need to make that debt and sleep and take a nap. whatever it takes to catch up. That’s what regular people like high functioning people dedicate that says to make up sleep debt, but just make sure, you know, when you’re treating insomnia, you’re creating a sleep debt, but if you have a sleep debt by working, you just compensate that. It’s great strategy.

Speaker #0
Okay. Ideally, we don’t want to be in that habit of making sleep. We want to be following your seven steps and being really consistent every night with our sleep.

Speaker #1
Just think about if you lose one hour of sleep a night in a week, you’re losing one whole night. It’s like not slept. Just think about in that aspect, you know, one hour a night a week, you lost a night of sleep. So it adds up and adds up. It slowly erodes. Sleep problems don’t hurt like a toothache or doesn’t grow like cancer. But people do ignore it. Like you said, in the beginning, you said, you know, people come and say, hey, I’ll die when I sleep when I die. I tell people it might happen to you. So it literally can happen to you.

Speaker #0
Yeah, no, I’ve heard people say, I’ll sleep when I’m dead. I mean, they’re just too busy right now to worry about sleeping, but there is nothing like a good night’s sleep. I mean, there’s nothing that feels as good as that. So Dr. Don, thank you so much. I really appreciate all of your information. I think we’ve gotten lots of questions answered and the takeaway is that we really all need. good quality sleep and I love your seven steps and and I’m looking forward to reading your book

Speaker #1
Yes. So thanks, Heather. Thanks for having me on your show. Sleep well, be well, and let’s go sleeping.

Speaker #0
And as always, if you loved this podcast, please consider gifting me with a five-star review. It is so helpful for me to get the word out on real eating, our real bodies, and real food stories. Thank you so much and have a great week. Bye for now.