Emotional Eating and Body Image: Jane McGinnis on Healing Through Compassionate Nutrition and Mindful Eating Practices

Have you ever found yourself reaching for food during moments of emotional distress, only to feel guilty afterward? You’re not alone. In this enlightening episode of Real Food Stories, host Heather Carey sits down with Jane McGinnis, a registered clinical counselor and author of the transformative book Always Hungry. Jane’s inspiring journey of overcoming emotional eating and body image issues led her to lose an incredible 103 pounds and maintain that loss for over a decade. Together, they delve into the pervasive societal pressures of diet culture and the crucial role of self-compassion in nurturing a healthier relationship with food.

Throughout the conversation, Jane emphasizes the importance of understanding the emotional triggers behind our eating habits. By recognizing these triggers, we can begin to break free from the cycle of emotional eating that so many of us experience. She shares valuable insights on how to foster a mindset of moderation and common sense, which is key to achieving sustainable health and wellness. With her personal food journey as a backdrop, Jane recounts her experiences with various diets and how she ultimately found success through small, positive changes rather than quick fixes.

As they explore the intricacies of nutrition advice and healthy eating tips, Jane and Heather highlight the significance of reconnecting with one’s body. They discuss how our upbringing and family food traditions shape our food beliefs and relationships with nutrition. This episode is a treasure trove of mindful eating practices and personal food stories that aim to empower women, especially those navigating the complexities of midlife and menopause.

With a focus on midlife body positivity and empowering women’s health, Jane’s insights challenge prevalent weight loss myths and encourage listeners to embrace their unique personal nutrition journeys. Tune in to learn about the seven pillars of abundance and how to cultivate a healthy lifestyle that aligns with your values and aspirations. This episode is not just about losing weight; it’s about nourishing your body and soul, finding joy in food, and embracing the journey of health with kindness.

Join us on this heartfelt exploration of emotional eating, sustainable eating practices, and the power of vulnerability in healing through food. Whether you’re struggling with weight management, navigating perimenopause nutrition, or simply looking for cooking techniques that support your wellness, this episode offers something for everyone. Let’s break free from the chains of diet culture and embark on a journey of self-discovery through the lens of real food and culinary wellness.

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Transcript:

Speaker #0
Well, hello, everybody, and welcome back. And if you are just tuning in with me for the very first time, it’s so nice to meet you. And I’m really glad you’re here with me today. I am your host, Heather Carey, nutritionist, chef, mom, and a woman who has been around the block with food. I want to open up about real food in relation to health, weight, and our bodies so you can make peace with what you eat. Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Real Food Stories podcast. Now, emotional eating, body image, and weight are some of the overwhelming issues for some women, myself included, in my own weight loss journey. And I have someone with me today that successfully battled society’s obsession with diet culture and body shaming to finally lose weight and make peace with her own body. So let me introduce you to Jane McGinnis. Jane is the author of Always Hungry, a raw and hilarious memoir about emotional eating, body image, and reclaiming self-worth. A registered clinical counselor, Jane blends professional insight with lived experience, sharing her journey of losing 103 pounds, navigating divorce, and parenting three children. With wit, Honesty and compassion. She speaks to the pressures of diet culture, body shaming, and emotional health. So hi, Jane. Welcome to the show. I’m so glad to have you on today because losing weight, keeping it off are complicated for so many women in our culture, especially because women feel like there must be a perfect diet or a secret or now drugs like Ozempic. that get them to take action. When I know your story is wildly different from the norm, and I say wildly different because you used none of those, right? So I want to jump in. I want to hear your story, where you started from and where you are now in your journey with weight loss and making peace with your body and how you got to then write your book.

Speaker #1
Oh, thank you. Thanks, Heather. It’s lovely to be here. I appreciate you welcoming me onto your show. And yeah, no, you’re right. My story is different. And I think it’s one we don’t hear enough, which is that, you know, just common sense and persistence, you know, and a commitment to making positive changes can move the needle. And it did for myself. A big, massive integral piece of that was getting to the core of the emotional eating disorder. It was the why. Why was I snacking when I wasn’t hungry? What was really… going on, what was I really hungry for? Which is where the title of my book came from, Always Hungry, because I am still always hungry, but it’s not food. You know, that’s what I had to figure out, like what needed changing in my life, what needed healing, what was missing, like what was really going on. I think so many of us, I learned through my own lived experience and through working in my clinical practice, is that so many of us find ourselves in the fridge or pantry. and mindlessly eating. It’s got nothing to do with physical hunger. There’s just a complete disconnect from the neck down with the body. And so for me, my healing started with that. It was a reconnection, started with walking, starting to move my body again to make, you know, get back to whole, you know, real food. You know, I’ve always loved cooking. It was just making those small, positive, sustainable changes and exploring. you know tweaking recipes making them more nutritious healthier and it just was just one step at a time and it took time which i think a lot of people in society don’t want we want a quick fix we want to we spend decades gaining weight and then we want to drop it in 30 days you know which is why all of these diet industry and diet culture is is what it is in such a multi-billion dollar industry but the bottom line is yeah we can make positive changes just if we give ourselves time to heal. We do the emotional work and we just use common sense, which I maintain is not that common. So I wanted to speak out to that and let people know, yeah, there is a path of moderation. This is why my sub stack is called all things moderation. You know, it doesn’t get, we don’t hear this enough because we’re just drowned out by all of like you say, the diet noise, your Zen pick, like everything else that’s going on. While I don’t judge other people for choosing those paths, if that works for them, great. That just wasn’t. What’s up? my path. And it’s personally not something that I’m interested in exploring. My focus now is maintaining my health long term. And what does that look like for me? And mentally and physically, of course.

Speaker #0
So let’s go back a little bit. Let’s jump back because I know you’re using, you’re throwing out some words like common sense and moderation and persistence and, you know, and it’s sort of with emotional eating. So I would love it if you could go back a little bit and just give me some of your story about growing up. I mean, we all have a food story, right? That’s what my whole podcast is called, Real Food Stories, because I really feel like we are very rooted in how we were raised and our cultures and our, you know, whoever the adults were in our lives and who gave us the food beliefs. And… That’s where the emotional eating can kind of get rooted. And so I just want to hear from you. Tell me, you know, you say that you lost 103 pounds, which is significant, and you have kept it off, which is equally as significant. So tell me where your story begins.

Speaker #1
Sure, absolutely. Because people are surprised when they hear I’ve kept it off for a decade. and most people… Only know Jane in a slim body. They don’t even believe that I used to be obese. A lot of people say, no, no, that’s not you. But it was. And it started, I think, like it does for many of us in childhood. You know, I had unhappily married parents. So there was some small T trauma there in my family of origin. And my father was an emotional eater. My mother always cooked from scratch and she would always make healthy food for us. But I learned when I was very young, you know, that food equaled love to me, like it was a substitute. It was somewhere to go, you know, when there was some childhood bullying, when there were issues at home, food became comfort. So I would cook and bake. But, you know, there was no moderation. I was just, I was, you know, baking whatever I felt like, frankly, after school, whether it was cake or cheesecake. And then, yeah, it wasn’t one piece I was having occasionally. It was, yeah, it was far more. And it was about the why. And I had to figure that out. And it took me decades of work. to figure out what was going on. Because often, you know, these habits that we form, you know, they become entrenched very easily. We just immediately were upset and dysregulated. We head straight to the pantry. And I know I did that for a long time without recognizing the triggers and what was really going on. You know, I’m married in my early twenties, had three children. So I was a stay-at-home mother and my husband worked long hours. And so, of course. Food became a comfort again. I mean, my eldest is on the spectrum and was undiagnosed. So there were some big challenges there. So I had three little ones in my first one, you know, having, you know, and it wasn’t their fault, of course, in being neurodivergent, but I didn’t have the support that I needed. And so, yeah, my escape, as I state in my book, my escape was the pantry in the kitchen where I went for comfort because I was in need of nurturing. And yeah, I was going about it the wrong ways, but it’s what I knew at the time. So that’s where it all began. And then, you know, three pregnancies and I continually gained weight, got to the point after my youngest was born when I realized this is something needs to change. I was lacking energy. I didn’t feel good. I was struggling with anxiety. I didn’t feel confident. And I just knew this was not going to be my story. I thought, okay, it’s time to take charge here and start making some small positive changes. You know, I began walking and biking and then discovered Janine Roth’s work, all of her brilliant books on emotional eating. And that was, that was really one of, one of the key turning points. You know, I’d already started along the journey, but her books, you know, When Food Is Love, you know, Breaking Free From Emotional Eating, her books really, really helped me to start to get to the bottom of what was going on and start to figure it out. And then I, then I put the piece of the puzzle together. and just continually persisted. And it took time. It didn’t come off overnight, but nor should it. And I believe I’ve been able to keep it off because I formed those positive habits that have now become just my daily. It’s what I do. And so I think we need to start with self-compassion. We need to just be gentle with ourselves. And then we need to recognize that healing the body takes time because I was also healing emotionally from my past, from the anxiety. And I think we need to give ourselves time. I don’t believe in quick fixes. I don’t know that they’re sustainable, certainly not if you don’t do the inner emotional work. And if people choose medication, you know, as M-PIC or whatnot, that’s… Like I said, I respect that that’s their path. It just wasn’t mine. And I, yeah, I’m finally at a point where I’m at peace, you know, 99.5% of the time. There’s still the off day, you know, where I’m challenged because I’m human. I mean, we all are.

Speaker #0
Of course. Right. Yeah. I mean, it’s a lifelong, right?

Speaker #1
Yes.

Speaker #0
Practice, I guess. I don’t want to say an issue or anything like that, but it’s just something that you have to keep, can’t take for granted, I think.

Speaker #1
Oh, a hundred percent. And I agree. And I’ve found, and I’m, I’m sort of writing more about this in my second book, actually, because I want to share what I continue to learn as I start to navigate, you know, getting later into my forties and starting to navigate changes and recognizing that yoga is extremely helpful. And the more I practice at the calmer, I feel meditation. I meditate every day. Now that’s huge. You know, I didn’t do that a decade ago, and that’s really, really helping me to stay grounded within my body. connect somatically, which just helps with understanding signals of hunger and fullness, recognizing what’s going on if I am a little dysregulated and dealing with stresses as we all do in life. My children are young adults now and that comes with its own challenges. I’ve made a career change. So yeah, things like that, like meditation, just figuring out, okay, what else works here to help me to maintain my health and sanity, frankly, parenting three kids in today’s world, which is insane.

Speaker #0
I get it. I have three kids too. And I know it is, it is interesting right now. So you mentioned that your dad was also an emotional eater.

Speaker #1
Yeah.

Speaker #0
Tell me a little bit more about that. Was that, was that something that influenced you and what was his emotional eating?

Speaker #1
You know, it’s interesting. I mean, sadly he passed suddenly last year and it was, it was only after he passed that I reflected on. his life. I mean, he struggled with depression his whole life. And back in the day, it wasn’t even talked about. It was undiagnosed until he was 50. So he had his own struggles, which of course impacted, you know, my childhood negatively, unfortunately. But it was, yeah, after his passing, I could reflect, you know, speak to other family members and realize, yeah, he was absolutely, food was comfort for my father too. You know, he loved my mother’s cooking. far too much of it. And then she’d have to hide the leftovers, like in the bottom of the fridge at the back, she’d say, you’d have a man’s look and he wouldn’t find it if it was hidden well. So that’s where she’d put things, you know, before they divorced. It was quite funny, but in hindsight, it speaks to a bigger problem. And, you know, how much of this is, you know, nature and nurture. I mean, of course there’s that genetic component and that predisposition. Fortunately, I didn’t have a struggle with depression ever. I’m very, very lucky in that respect. But, you know, yeah, I see the genetic link and it’s certainly, you know, extremely common in every family. I mean, now I know myself with the extra learning that I’ve undertaken and my knowledge of, you know, my microbiome and how important that is to have healed that maybe without realizing and then know, OK, I need to actually focus on thinking about my gut health. Because that, of course, you know, happy hormones are. you know, produce there too. And I think a lot of us don’t realize that, which is why when I eat really well, really good food, I feel better, so much better because I’m getting all of those happy chemicals from my tummy too. And a lot of us don’t know that. So yeah, certainly learning more and writing more about that in my second book. So I can share that with people. This is why when we eat crap, we feel like crap. It’s just disgusting. Right.

Speaker #0
But so for you though, I just want to stick with this emotional eating. part for a minute. I have to imagine back then, making sure your microbiome was all happy was not really your first priority, right? I mean, emotional eating can override lots of, right? Because the comfort that you can get from food in hard times can really dictate your whole life. I totally get that. I grew up an emotional eater too. I had… Some, I think you said small T traumas. I think I had some fairly big T traumas and that and emotional eating really gave me a lot of comfort at the time. And I had to unlink that, you know, as an adult, I had to realize, you know, even though I went to school, I have my master’s degree in clinical nutrition and everything. And I, you know, they never taught you about. the emotional part or the mindful part or, you know, I learned a lot about the science of nutrition, but that work I had to do kind of on my own. And it sounds like you also had to do that. That was part of your journey. I know you mentioned Janine Roth, who’s… Has written a number of books on emotional eating and everything. And I remember reading some of her books, too, years ago and feeling like that she was one of the first people who I think was talking about that, this emotional connection to food that I remember. So how did you fall into reading about her books or what was the changing where you said, I’ve had enough?

Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there was definitely a few pivotal moments along the way and after the birth of my son that I write about, yeah, that I’ve put in here in this book that I’m deliberately matching. But there was, yeah, there were a few moments in there that were, you know, those, I think when people do as an emotional leader, you kind of hit rock bottom and I just realized, okay, like I am going to make changes here because I did love exercise as a kid. You know, I played team sports. We were encouraged to, you know, the weight went on as a teenager, but when I was young younger. I enjoyed being physically active. And so I had to reconnect with that. But with the emotional eating, it was absolutely, I believe serendipitous that I was in a bookstore because I’ve always loved to read. You know, I was in the health and wellness section, found Janine’s book, one of her first. And yeah, it was just like a light bulb moment like that. Aha, I get it now. You know, she was just, I really feel like I need to thank this woman one day if I can. I want to, because Yeah, that was a, that was a massive turning point in, you know, I’d already made some positive changes, but I had to get to the root of what was really going on when I was comfort eating. Even now today in 2025, I mean, if I’m, if I have a stressful day, I will bang, like I go straight into the kitchen, then I find myself and I can usually stop myself. You know, I put my ground, I put my feet on the floor, I take those slow breaths and I ask myself, like, what is going on here? What is this really about? If I’m looking for comfort or something sweet and, yeah, I’m not actually physically hungry because it’s, gosh, it is a lifelong journey and it’s so easy to do, particularly when these habits are entrenched and we’ve been, you know, these behaviours have been decades, you know, decades of repeat every day and often we do it without awareness. So it was just coming back into the body and recognising. Also being compassionate, you know, if I’m really struggling and having a tough day, like I’ll do everything I can, you know. Yeah, I think it’s just recognizing in those moments too and acknowledging, okay, I feel like ice cream and even just acknowledging I’m not physically hungry and I know why I want it. It’s because I’m stressed right now. I’m sad. So just putting words to that can be very, very helpful. And then if somebody does choose, okay, well, I’m still going to have the Ben and Jerry’s because it’s super yummy. I’m sad. At least there’s an awareness of what’s going on. It’s like, right, I realize right now, what do I really need right now? I mean, sometimes I’ll run a bath, you know, which I do often. Or, yeah, go for a walk. You know, I try and make another choice. You know, phone a friend, whatever it is. Yeah,

Speaker #0
I think that that’s a really good point that we can talk about right now is that it sounds like you, you know, You’ve read the books and, you know, you got some awareness, but, you know, being mindful, right, of your eating. And I know that for me, too, in my weight loss journey, and I’ve talked about this many times on this podcast, so I don’t have to repeat the whole story to my audience. But that was the difference between just being on a diet and, okay, like, you know, tracking your food and, like, you know, and losing weight. and keeping it off because I think that is what lacks in so many diets is the mindful part or just getting in tune with your emotions and your body and asking yourself daily if you have to, am I really hungry right now? Am I physically hungry? If you’re physically hungry, I’m sure you know this, right? Please eat. Please honor your hunger and eat and not starve yourself. Or are you emotionally hungry is what I usually just call it. Are you having a bad day? Are you tired? Are you lonely? Are you fill in the blank? And if you are, then maybe you could go get on the phone with a friend or go take a bath or whatever it is. And then even still, if… You recognize like, but I still want that ice cream. Just make me feel a little bit, you know, at least you’re aware of it, right? We’re not doing it mindlessly. You’re not like eating a pint of ice cream and then wondering what the hell happened. You’re you’re. you’re doing it with awareness.

Speaker #1
Oh,

Speaker #0
I think that’s a huge difference. And I think that’s, that’s the, that’s the key to really start to differentiate. So is that, you know, can you speak to that too? Do you feel like you had, that was part of your story as well?

Speaker #1
Oh, certainly. Absolutely. And I mean, it’s, it’s still, it’s an ongoing journey, as I said, like it, yeah, that took years to get on top of, you know, absolutely years because, you know, Often for so many of us, food is a poor man’s substitute for love. As I write in my book, I know it was for me. There were moments I left my husband through the separation and divorce. I mean, there were some dark times and that was incredibly challenging. It was so easy to turn to food for comfort, but then recognize, okay, that’s not what I’m needing right now. So I had to start with… you know, recognizing, okay, I need nurturing and self-compassion. You know, the world won’t give it to us. We have to be our own best friends and give that to ourselves. And I realized, okay, I need to fill my life with other things that bring joy and pleasure because I do love food. I’m a foodie and I’ll always enjoy good food, like good, wholesome, you know, cooked from scratch, ideally, you know, real food. But I also then realized, okay, well, what else brings joy? So, You know, I took up more. um you know different hobbies I mean I took up mountain biking I mean I started puzzling again which I hadn’t done since I was a child you know um yeah just started reading more you know music you know there were just so many I started learning Italian you know I wanted to challenge myself and just do something that I wanted to do for me you know and um start to do some bigger hikes which I’m also writing about in the next book just things that things that bring joy and That’s so important to fill our lives with things that we love and bring joy that aren’t necessarily related to food. Because I know when we’re in that, whether it’s any kind of disordered eating, it can just become such an obsession that there’s so much mental noise. My entire day used to be taken up by counting points or calories and what can I eat? When can I eat? What am I allowed to eat? What am I cooking? And it was just this crazy, unhealthy obsession. And so just recognizing, okay, there is, there’s so much more to life. I guess let’s enjoy good food and then let’s go and, you know, do something we love. It doesn’t have to all revolve around that. So it needed to, I needed to really, really recognize that it was taking up way, way too much, you know, real estate in my brain, like constantly the obsession, thinking about it. So yeah, it’s, it’s absolutely a journey and a process.

Speaker #0
Yeah. When you’re on a diet, I mean, you can get completely obsessed and consumed with food, right? Because you’re counting, you’re tracking, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I mean, I want to like, you know, just put that out there. I think that there’s nothing wrong with getting the information from tracking your food and finding out, you know, because weight loss, and I want to talk to you about this too, weight loss is a numbers game, right? We have to like eat less. And we have to know how much we’re eating. So there’s nothing wrong with tracking food and just getting clear on how much your morning bowl of oatmeal, how many calories that is. But we can turn that into a little bit of obsession if we are just constantly down to the calorie, trying to count everything. So it sounds like for you, you know, I want to hear. how when you, I guess, made that decision that you’ve had enough, because 100 pounds is, takes a lot of commitment. I mean, that’s a, right? I mean, that’s, that’s not 10 pounds. I mean, that’s, that’s like a months and months of commitment.

Speaker #1
For sure. Yeah. It was a lot of, a lot of walking.

Speaker #0
Yeah. I mean, so tell me, I mean, did you, did you try diets?

Speaker #1
Oh yeah. I mean, I tried everything, you know, I tried you Weight Watchers, I tried juicing, I tried a million things, low-carb, paleo, I tried all of them. And yeah, there was, of course, for a certain period of time, of course, it is, I believe, absolutely, there’s fundamental science there. I have to be burning up more than I consume. If I’m working out 10 hours a day, but I’m eating mountains of food, I’m not going to move the needle. Like, so yeah, the common sense around moderation and balance and recognizing, yeah, you’re right. I need to know how much is in roughly in a bowl of oatmeal. Cause if I’m eating a massive big bowl, like, you know, it could be half my day’s energy or more in that. So yeah, I had to figure that out, but it was when I, I just stopped with the diets and started incorporating. just common sense, you know, filling my plate with more vegetables, you know, exploring, you know, switching it up because I loved cooking, you know, so trying different recipes and, you know, a million different warm salads and figuring out like, wow, these are phenomenal. They’re filling, they’re full of fiber and full of healthy protein that I needed. So I wasn’t craving simple carbs. I wasn’t craving sugar. So making those changes over time and figuring out what worked for my body, that was absolutely, yeah, absolutely key too. Yeah, most definitely. And just, yeah, way back when it was, yeah, there was a lot of trial and error and, you know, I was obviously trying to restrict energy in those early days. So I was walking a lot. I would, I experimented with some protein shakes and vegan protein shakes, but what I found ultimately now at this point when I’m maintaining, my body does prefer real food. You know, I just, I’d rather, I’d rather eat rather than. you know, rather than drink my calories. So, you know, I can make an omelette, you know, with a whole lot of spinach and onion and capsicum peppers, we call them over here, you know, all of that. So I enjoy, I enjoy using the, you know, my, my, the energy, taking it in that way. But yeah, I tried different things and really just settled. And it took a long time to settle on the fact that, yeah, my body just wants, you know, unprocessed food, really does. And I will try and, you know. When whatever’s in season, like right now the apples are delicious. Everybody’s just eating a ton of them because they taste great. They’re in season. So just making sure the fridge is stocked. And sure, like again, like if I’m really, if I really feel like ice cream, I’m not going to deprive myself of it, but it’s balance and moderation. I’m not going to eat the whole tub, but have some of it and enjoy it, you know, and then brush my teeth and go to bed, you know, and not beat myself up for it. It used to be all or nothing. It was like… You know, as dieters, I think we think, well, I can’t have that. I’m not allowed to have that. Or sourdough bread I love. You know, I used to be like, well, I can’t have bread. There’s too many carbs in it. So now I’ll enjoy it. But in moderation, I’m not eating a ton of bread every day because, well, that wouldn’t be balanced for me. My body just doesn’t need it. But yeah, I really feel like it. You know, I’ll enjoy it, but smaller amounts, you know, just a sensible portion. And then I’ll, you know, I’ll go from, I’ll fit a workout into my day. So it’s just like, Just like that balance, that equilibrium, like that takes us time to learn and understand, okay, what does that body need and want? So we’re all, you know, wired a little differently. So I had to figure out what worked for me. I mean, protein’s a big one. I have to make sure I have enough healthy protein so I’m not craving sugar.

Speaker #0
So you mentioned this all or nothing mentality, which I think is very diet-minded, you know, like mentality, right? We’re either on the diet or we’re totally off the diet going like off the rails and then we have to go back on we have to you know beat ourselves up go back on the diet yeah and i agree with you that this all or nothing mentality is never works in the long run because when you when you lose weight i mean don’t you want to lose weight to keep it off you know i mean but i think yeah the there’s a big belief, I think, in our… culture that that’s not how it works is that you lose 20 pounds you gain you know you can’t sustain it you gain 20 pounds back and then you lose 20 i have a lot of clients like this who just lose and gain like all the time exactly you could spend a lifetime doing losing and gaining the same 10 pounds yeah it’s true and and i think when

Speaker #1
that’s happening it’s perhaps those people haven’t done the inner work to realize okay what’s really going on here you Because this is taking up my entire life. And sometimes it’s a way of avoiding other issues in our life. If we’re constantly obsessing with that, you know. Yeah. I think often it’s that emotional piece. It’s what’s, yeah. Yeah. Peace within our body.

Speaker #0
Exactly. But you mentioned the words common sense, just using common sense or doing food in moderation, which I totally agree with you. I mean, I. The concept of that, you know, of course, we have to keep it like sort of like even killed in moderation. But sometimes I feel like the word moderation gets overused because I hear people all the time saying, well, I drink alcohol, but in moderation. But what is moderation? Right. I mean, moderation, one glass of wine for you. And for me, moderation is three glasses of wine. Is it is it ice cream five days a week? Is it, you know, like, so sometimes I feel like moderation just gets a little overused or it’s a it’s a it’s an excuse, I guess, to, you know, to justify.things but what to you what does it mean to you when you say moderation or just using common sense because a lot of people you and I I think have common sense now at this point right we’ve had like journeys and you you know have had a big journey and so you know exactly what common sense in moderation mean for you but a lot of people don’t you know like they don’t really understand what common sense means

Speaker #1
Bye. Yeah, it’s, you know, and that’s a really good point too. And I mean, I find when you say that, I think back to, you know, my former obsession with the scales, you know, where I’d be weighing myself three times a day. And, you know, if I’d had a day where I’d overeaten or binged on something and then I’d punish myself the next day and starve and then just end up dizzy with a headache and no energy. And, you know, it was just a mess. It was a complete, just a mess. But what I’ve learned now is that for moderation for me means you know, are my pants comfortable? Like month by month, if I say track my weight and check in every couple of weeks, you know, and then I can just notice on a monthly, with a monthly weigh-in, for example, and I keep a record in, you know, in my calendar and my phone as we all, you know, use it for different things. And so I can track over six months, okay, is my weight tracking up a little, down a little, a level? And so for me, moderation means if I can keep where I’m at right now, I’m quite happy. you know, at a comfortable weight, my pants do up, you know, I feel energetic, I can work out, I’m happy. So for me, moderation is, okay, is, you know, am I just at the set point that my body seems comfortable with, or is it jumping up and down? And, you know, over Christmas, if it jumps up a little, I realize, okay, so there hasn’t been quite enough moderation. Yeah, I mean, with alcohol, for example, I don’t drink very often. And it’s such a subjective thing, of course. I mean, Sometimes I won’t drink at all for a couple of weeks because it just doesn’t feel good at this point in my life. If it’s Christmas and there’s events, sure, maybe a few times a week there’ll be a glass or two of red, but my body feels it. So I do need to be absolutely mindful, realizing, okay, if I’m not sleeping as well and waking up not feeling as well, that’s just, it’s time to say no. Yeah, but I agree. It’s figuring out, and I think for everybody, what works for them and just being honest with yourself. You know, if it’s, we’re saying, oh, well, I’m eating, you know, eating this, that and the other in moderation. But really, you know that, yeah, it’s an excuse. I think we’re only fooling ourselves and our pants don’t lie. You know, I can, you know, if I have a few weeks where I’m on holidays and just really being kind of irresponsible, because I do believe in personal responsibility. And if I’m being a little irresponsible and just… you know, not feeling well and just indulging too much and my pants tight. Well, that’s, that’s all I need to know really that, you know, okay, there hasn’t been enough moderation for me. Let’s just, let’s just make some changes and tweak this. So I, I make sure I never let it, let it get out of hand, you know, and now of course, holidays, I much prefer to ski or hike and do something active, which tends to balance, you know, the brand wine and cheese quite nicely. So it’s, yeah, I think balance is key. Yeah. And again, the self-compassion. We beat ourselves up and some people will then, you know, try the quick, the fasting diet. You know, they’ll do, you know, do something really extreme. And then often, you know, you regain. Once you jump off that, the whole time you’re thinking about what you can have when you stop the diet and then you just regain it all plus a few extra pounds. You know, I used to never, for example, let myself have twice baked almond croissants. They were kind of my thing. I love them and they’re well done. And, you know, sure, I don’t have them every day or very often. But if I’m out somewhere, you know, with a girlfriend or one of my kids, I might split one and enjoy it and recognize, yeah, not going to gain a hundred pounds. You know, I can enjoy this in moderation and it’s a treat. I think we forget that treats were historically treats for a reason. I’m not saying we should reward ourselves with food, but I’m saying, you know, way back when, you know, we didn’t have croissants every day. We didn’t have dessert every day. It was, that was, that was something you’d have at celebrations and birthdays. And, you know… And sure, enjoy it. But for me, it’s not a part of, you know, an everyday like intake. My body just does not need that kind of calorie dense, energy dense food every day. So recognizing that, yeah, I don’t advocate rewarding yourself for a job well done. But I do think just recognize that, okay, yeah, I love ice cream. I’ll enjoy it sometimes. But it’s, yeah, it’s for me, it’s more of a, it’s a bit of an indulgence because it’s just. It is energy dance and that’s just the reality of recognizing that, you know, there’s a whole lot in that. And unless I’m doing a lot of exercise that day. My body’s pretty effective at storing fat. Like I can just, I can pack it away very quickly. You know, I think as, yeah, most of us can really, because that’s evolution, isn’t it? We were designed to be able to conserve energy for times of famine, but there’s no famine. Like I look around and there’s just a whole lot of feasting.

Speaker #0
Right, exactly.

Speaker #1
Yes,

Speaker #0
exactly. So it sounds like for you, and I agree with this, that moderation is your… you’re using that word as like your own definition of being mindful, right? Being right. You’re, you’re on top of it. I think that some people just use like, Oh, well, everything in moderation, you know, it kind of gives them a hall pass,

Speaker #1
right? Which,

Speaker #0
and I’m like, well, what is moderation exactly? Do you know, it’s, it’s just, it’s, it’s personal to everybody. And I, so I agree with you that what you’re, you know, what your moderation or like what your set point weight. feel, you know, that you feel good at is personal to you.

Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. And we’ve just got to be honest with ourselves because I think, you know, as a nutritionist, it’s very, very easy to over-consume. Like it’s so easy, you know,

Speaker #0
it’s just,

Speaker #1
it’s amazing how many foods out there are really, really energy dense. And so I think that’s where educating oneself and really understanding what am I putting into my body is really important. And I do try and fill up on a lot of fiber now because of course it’s filling it’s really good for us. It’s really important. And looking at my sources of protein, you know, I mean, even, you know, I did a subsec post about macadamias, for example. I love them. They’re super healthy. I think we should all eat more tree nuts. But if I eat too many of them, I’m going to get a tummy ache and they’re really, really energy dense. So, you know, sitting down and eating two cups of them is just not going to be good for a whole lot of reasons.

Speaker #0
Right. Exactly.

Speaker #1
It’s that balance of enjoying a few and then, yeah.

Speaker #0
Yeah.

Speaker #1
So I’m having all my plate for lunch or whatever it is.

Speaker #0
So where did you learn about food and nutrition? You mentioned microbiome before and, you know, just needed to support yourself and, you know, your protein and fiber and everything. I mean, do you feel like as part of your journey to lose weight, you educated yourself on nutrition and food?

Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. I took a deep dive. I mean, more recently I’ve read Tim Spector’s work on the microbiome. I mean, I’ve loved his work and yeah, I just, I really became hungry for knowledge. So again, the title Always Hungry really speaks so much because I have a big collection on my bookshelf. Gosh, everything, everything around, you know, Michael Pollan’s work, you know, on. on nutrition, on what our bodies really need, you know, learning more about how, you know, even in terms of the calorie, I mean, it’s a crude tool. It really doesn’t tell us like how the body processes certain foods, how much of the energy we’re taking in, you know, there’s so much more to it. So yeah, my interest in nutrition has really only grown as I learn more about my body and what we all need. So yeah, I’m a pretty voracious reader now and constantly always just Yeah, wanting to keep abreast of latest developments and, again, using common sense, you know, and shutting out a lot of the nonsense, like the silly stuff I think that comes out, you know, telling us we need to, you know, drink juice for like 10 hours and then fast for 20 and then eat five eggs and, you know, all of these extreme things. So, you know, but when it comes to credible scientists, I absolutely love to read anything they’re putting out. you know, the latest research and they’re figuring out, okay, what’s good for us, you know, in terms of wellness and living well. And yeah, obviously I’m enthusiastic about living as long as possible. I have children and, you know, if any of them decide to have their own, I want to be here and be well. So it’s about feeling good and staying active and well as I get to this next point in my life.

Speaker #0
Yeah, of course. I mean, there’s a lot of quackery out there too, right? A lot of just diet nonsense. And yeah. And I think that the, right. And the, you know, but the older that we get and then going through perimenopause and menopause and everything, I mean, we really need to be more mindful than ever of just our energy and how we feel, you know, and food can definitely be really influential with that.

Speaker #1
Oh, absolutely. I find if I have too much sugar, I mean, I try and I try and keep it pretty I mean, I love fruit, so I’ll try and get my sugar in fruit. Because, yeah, sugar, you know, is not really my friend. If I’m having processed sugar, it messes with my energy. I don’t feel good the next day. You know, if I have a big piece of birthday cake and I’ll enjoy it at the time if it’s a birthday, but sometimes I’ve noticed afterwards I just, my body doesn’t feel as good. So I think when we really listen, you know, our body tells us what it needs. There’s a reason I feel energized. You know, if I’ve had… you know, some salmon and some, you know, yummy quinoa veggie salad. There’s a reason I feel so good after that. We have to really be, you know, honor and respect the signals our bodies give us. So our bodies tell us, my body tells me, you know, very, very quickly, that it’s not good after I’ve had something.

Speaker #0
Yeah.

Speaker #1
Important too, especially as you say, you know, never getting perimenopause and getting to that next stage. My body sort of, those Those voices are getting louder now. Maybe I’m just listening more, but yeah, I do need to honor that. And then I just feel so much better for it.

Speaker #0
Right. Well, it sounds like you have been on a big journey, a lifelong journey, and you’re not giving up, right? Because this is not a diet, right? You or this is your life. And it sounds like then the… And after you had this experience and you lost weight and everything, you wrote a book. And so I was curious what inspired you to write your book, your first book. And I know you’re writing a second book, but your first book, Always Hungry.

Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you for asking. You know, it kind of hit me in August of 2023. I was traveling and I just, I’d been working as a therapist, a clinical counselor here in BC for a while. I went back to school after the divorce, but… I just realized my friends had always joked they were living vicariously through me, you know, the divorce, the dating, all of the other things that go into life and parenting as a, you know, solo parent. And I thought that at the core of it was the physical changes and the transformation in terms of, you know, dealing with the anxiety, the emotional eating, all of it. I thought, okay, I need to share this because I knew there was, I knew I had a lot of value. I thought, I know that it’s been a heck of a ride. And I think I just knew that there was a story in here. And there were also the very serious pieces around size discrimination and the thin pretty privilege, you know, the slim privilege, the white girl privilege I have now in society. Because I only realized I had it when the weight came off and everybody treated me differently in society. And that’s incredibly sad. And I thought, I need to tell this story. It’s not okay that I’m treated well now. you know, because my pants were a different size because I was the same human. I was the same person when I was a hundred pounds heavier and yeah, they’re just like thin privilege and, you know, weight bias and discrimination is very real. So there was, there was some serious, very serious reasons I wanted to share my journey and also the emotional eating piece, much like Janine Roth shared. I wanted to share what I’d learned because I think so many of us struggle with that. So many of my clients would come in. anxiety and depression. And it was only in the third or fourth session that they would share, you know, their own food stories. And yeah, it was really just universal, you know, this complicated, really often very conflicted relationship that my clients all had with food, their bodies. And yeah, it wasn’t gender specific. It was across the board. Most people would report, you know, issues around eating and food and disordered eating. So I thought, yeah, I figured out, I mean, I’m still learning. I haven’t learned at all, but I figured, yeah, I figured out I’ve learned a lot over the last decade or two and I want to share this with people. So then when I decided to write it, I just sat down and wrote it and I got the draft done in three months and didn’t sleep a lot. I just thought, okay, I’m getting this book done. And everyone thought I was mad and said, no, I’m getting it published. I’m going to keep writing because I kind of like, I’m like a dam burst and I have this fire now within and now I can’t stop writing. Bye. There will be more Jane McGuinness books because it’s truly my passion and joy. And I know I can reach more people this way rather than in a clinical setting where I can only see so many people a week decided, okay, I’m going to keep writing and share this because these things, these stories need to be told. And people, I have something of value and I can help a few people with their own relationships with food. If they struggle with any kind of disordered eating, that’s what I want to do from here on. that’s kind of my purpose now and I’m just I’m just determined to yeah make some noise and and share what I’ve learned and and also speak out you know around you know weight bias and just reminding people just to be kind you know and compassionate nobody made positive changes because they were judged or shamed or criticized exactly right right exactly and I think that’s that’s such a key thing and maybe to end with I mean is that is that the difference between you

Speaker #0
We’ve said this before, you know. Losing weight in a sustainable way, right, takes so much compassion and kindness for yourself versus dieting, going on and off diets. And diets are punishing. You know, diets do not teach you how to be kind to yourself at all. And I think hence the reason why 90% of all diets fail. I mean, and people go lose weight, gain weight, and like they’re just in this, you know, horrible cycle. And then even going further than like with… like drugs like ozempic which i no judgment on anyone using them but i don’t think it teaches you anything on how to be kind and compassionate or eat well or like i mean it doesn’t you know and and it’s kind of the same once you go off of those you’re going to gain

Speaker #1
the weight back and yeah which people are reporting and the other thing is as you mentioned with the diets they also don’t teach you to trust within, you know. to intuitive eating, trust signals of hunger and fullness, actually listen to your body. You know, because sometimes I might be out with a friend for lunch and it’s noon, but if I’m not physically hungry, I know now. If I’m choosing to eat because I’m there, my body’s not asking for it. And if I’m ravenous at 11am, I will go and eat lunch early. I’ll listen to my body and that sort of diet doesn’t teach us. It doesn’t teach us to trust our wisdom and trust that our bodies know.

Speaker #0
Yeah, because it doesn’t, it doesn’t, right, educate you on hunger cues. And I’m the same. If it’s, if it’s 11 o’clock in the morning, and I’m physically hungry, I’m going to eat lunch. Right? Society tells me I can’t eat lunch until noon. I’m eating lunch because, because that’s what I, and I’m just going to trust that, like, it’s okay. It’s, I’m not going to then overeat the rest of the day or doing it, you know, I’m just honoring my hunger.

Speaker #1
Yeah, exactly. Because there’s so much fear around food. I think diets teach us to fear food. And then I know I did for years.

Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah,

Speaker #1
I would fear, you know, having a glass of wine thinking, no, I can’t have that. I’ll gain weight. Whereas actually I can, just not all the time every day, you know. It’s just great. Yeah. It’s an occasional thing. It’s a bit of a, yeah, I’ll admit it’s something I’ll enjoy occasionally, but yeah, not too often because, yeah, my skin looks bad. Like everything just, you know.

Speaker #0
on a handbasket very quickly yeah well jane it’s been a pleasure speaking with you and thank you for being so forthcoming about your journey and your story and your experience and i know um my audience is gonna love to hear about you and and um and everything so where can people find you and where can they find your book sure absolutely so if they go to jane mcginnis the author.com

Speaker #1
There’s links to, yeah, there’s links to Indigon, Barnes & Noble and, yeah, Amazon, of course. Everything’s there. Links to the audio book, if they’d like the paperback or the e-book, it’s all there and more information. Yeah, and more information about the next one that I’m writing too. So, yeah, and links to all of my socials so they can see what I’m getting up to online and what I’m sharing about what I continue to learn about. Yeah, there’s common sense. and you know I looking after ourselves with kindness and compassion and love.

Speaker #0
Right. Yeah, exactly. Well, I will put all those links in the show notes of the podcast so people can find you that way too. And it was really nice speaking with you and thank you so much.

Speaker #1
Oh, thank you for having me, Heather. It was just an absolute pleasure. Great. Absolutely. Thanks.

Speaker #0
And as always, if you loved this podcast, please consider gifting me with a five-star review. It is so helpful for me to get the word out on real eating, our real bodies, and real food stories. Thank you so much and have a great week. Bye for now.